Main Conference Room Messages
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Conf. Admin:I will now clear the screen, which saves the session to the computer in British Colombia.(19:17:15)
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jrifkin:kim and chris were Janet Rifkin and Leah Wing, Tom was Larry Saunders and Rhonda was Jessica Widico. As mentioned before, we had several others assisting each of us: Ethan Katsh, Maroo Eymontt, Phil Deguise, Alan Gaitenby, Lori Graham, and Peter D'Errico, Kerri Quigley. Thanks to all. We are closing down now from here at UMASS. Join us with other things for cyberweek as the week prgresses.(19:13:33)
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Conf. Admin:The system has two "rooms". One of the parties can log out of the "Main" conference room and into the other room. The mediator can be in both rooms simultaneously by opening another window of the browser (File...New Window) and logging into the other room. It's a bit hectic, but can be done.(19:10:46)
jrifkin:Some other issues that got raised for us are ethical: ie: how does the fact that we cannot necessarily verify each other's identity online. for example, chris and kim the mediators could have been women or men....(19:09:54)
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jrifkin:Other things we learned: venting space can happen better in private sessions however, then one party is waiting incybernoland for a long time...; how do you get to storytelling when things inprint can escalate anger...?(19:06:26)
Conf. Admin:To log in with the abiliity to send messages, type into the location/Address box of your browser:
http://websorcerer.com/cgi-bin/cyberchat/chat.pl?logon
(19:06:20)
jrifkin:We have not heard from any of you out there and are not sure if you can't log on as we had thought. With about 10 of us here at the Umass site, we are discussing some of the frustrations and learnings that we have uncovered doing this. For example, clearly different ground rules than those used in face-to-face mediation are needed; the timeframe is so different and maybe that has to be acknowledged up front; anger-management is challenging with this technology,(19:03:58)
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Conf. Admin:Resolution Forum has been developing this system for about one year now. It is being used a part of the 40 hour course, put on by Resolution Forum and South Texas College of Law (affiliated with Texas A&M University), required to be a certified third party neutral in Texas. The feed-back from participants has been extremely useful in giving us direction for improvements to the use of this type of system.
This session points up the strengths and weaknesses of this approach.
I particularly liked what the mediator did to stop the interruptions by the parties. Giving a pary an "assignment" to formulate a position while the mediator conversed with the other party effectively blocks the possibility of interruption since the text box used to send messages is being filled with a future message.(19:00:56)
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jrifkin:TO ALL: at this point rhonda had been thinking about her options while we were in a private session with Tom. She clearly would need to hear his offer and then maybe a potential resolution would get underway. But we are opening up this process now to all including observers. We will keep the discussion open for 10 more minnutes. Please give us your ideas about this process and format... You can join the discussion by: clicking on the logout button, then going to http://websorcerer.com/cgi-bin/cyberchat/chat.pl?logon and logging in again under some name, and then posting a message. If this does not work, exit your Web browser and then start it again and go to the above URL. Many thanks. (18:51:03)
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tombenson:sounds good to me(18:46:41)
jrifkin:Tom, sounds like we are getting close to building an agreement and have some offers on the table to work with. Why don't we bring you both together. (18:45:58)
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RhondaMcdonald:I really feel that this just isn't an issue to be resolved through mediation. I feel that Mr. Benson just didn't give an inch. The issue here is a deadbolt. There is so much here in the way of his negligence, that the attempt at mediation seems frustrating. I appreciate the effort, but my honest feeling is that it just isn't going to happen.(18:43:25)
tombenson:a little while ago she said that she wants a 9.95 lock from walmart, so 2 months seems too much. we'll agree to one months rent plus $20. and if she wants to use it for a lock, that's fine. she can consider the month's rent as us saying we're sorry about what happened to you, even though it wasn't our fault.(18:42:39)
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jrifkin:Tom, thanks for waiting. We asked you a while ago about how you would like to be approached in the future by Rhonda. A second questions for you then is given both of your concerns about how the safety issue is resolved, what is your response to the following suggestion from Rhonda: She offers to put in her own security system in lieu of paying two months rent. (18:39:29)
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jrifkin:Rhonda, you clearly want more compensation for your experiences which he contributed to and you want more understanding from him. We are happy to talk with him about these things and see what is possible. While we speak with him can you think a little bit about what your choices are IF he doesn't end up agreeing to more.(18:36:53)
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RhondaMcdonald:I need my expenses paid! I've sacrificed so much! My school work, my job, I have no alternatives. I am lucky to be alive, and people want to quibble over money. If I stay, I will pay for my own security and not pay too months rent. Or if I move, I want all my money back. He lied, he put me at risk, and I have to suffer the consequences forever! If I don't get this help, I'll never get on with my life! His attempts are not clear enough, and not good enough essentially. (18:32:52)
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jrifkin:Rhonda, it's pretty clear that it doesn't matter to Tom if you leave or not and he is willing to let you out of the lease and give you security and last month's rent back. he has acknowledged that you have legitimate safety concerns. But he has indicated being unwilling to give you other compensation, pay for counseling, or get other security measures in place before 3 months from now. What options do you realistically have? Would you prefer to move out? If you stay, doyou have any creative ideas to help Tom change his mind?(18:29:02)
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tombenson:private sessions are fine. (18:27:26)
tombenson:sorry, your security and last(18:26:47)
tombenson:you will get your 1st and last back(18:26:05)
tombenson:NO WAY(18:25:17)
jrifkin:Tom, we think private sessions make help nopw. We will be back with you in several min.(TO ALL INCLUDING OBSERVERS: we would go into private sessions--perhaps a while ago--if it wasn't for observers not being able to see them). This is now a private session with Rhonda.(18:25:03)
tombenson:$9.95 times the # of apts we have is a lot of money plus the installation. also, the $995 ones are not worth much they are easy to break into(18:24:47)
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RhondaMcdonald:Then refund my three months rent, first month, last month, and sec, dep. pay my back Doctors bills, and 1000$ pain and suffering(18:24:41)
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tombenson:if she wants, we would be willing to let her out of her lease so that she can move, but not pay any moving expenses(18:22:16)
RhondaMcdonald:Dead bolts are 9.95 at Wal Mart-I could be dead in three months.(18:21:54)
RhondaMcdonald:I've clearly outlined my possibilities. We could start with those.(18:21:20)
RhondaMcdonald:I've clearly outlined my possibilities. We could start with those.(18:20:55)
tombenson:I can't provide anything for 1 apt that I don't provide the others. as i said before we are looking into buying deadbolts but we need to find a supplier we can afford. it will likely happen, but we are willing to guarantee no later than 3 months from now(18:20:29)
jrifkin:Rhonda, can you clarify what you mean?(18:19:57)
RhondaMcdonald:I'm only willing to continue if there are some efforts being made in the meantime.(18:18:40)
jrifkin:Say more, Tom.(18:18:23)
tombenson:I'm willing to continue if we talk about realistic possibilities and stop with the threats.(18:17:27)
jrifkin:Let's talk about the safety issues affecting both of you. Tom, what is possible from your perspective and what is a realistic timeframe?(18:17:17)
tombenson:thanks for your apology and I never suggested that there aren't legitimate safety issues. just how much this apartment building can do to deal with those issues(18:16:02)
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jrifkin:Let's summarize where we are at. It sounds like you both agree that Rhonda's experience was awful and painful. But that there is still an enormous amount of anger and differing perceptions. This process of mediation takes time and it is common to feel like we are not going to reach a mutual understanding but with time and a chance to connumication more fully about things it is a possibility to do so. At this point, are the two of you willing to continue with this mediation to try to do so?(18:15:19)
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RhondaMcdonald:I appreciate your weak attempts of trying to understand my position, and I apologize for my outburst. Can we agree on the fact that there is a safety issue that seriously needs to be resolved?(18:14:10)
tombenson:It sounds like she's more interested in retribution than resolution(18:11:50)
tombenson:see what i mean?(18:11:03)
RhondaMcdonald:Thank you for your admission of liability, Mr. Benson. We are now going to take your advice and subsequently "Sue you."(18:10:33)
tombenson:listen, I really am sorry that this happened to her. She really seemed like a nice person before all this happened, and I do know how scared you get after being attacked. I wish there was something i could say that would help, but I don't know how to deal with this(18:10:16)
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RhondaMcdonald:I empathize with Mr. Benson being attacked, but your personal experience shouldn't interfere with your ability to do your job. What does his experience and feelings have to do with the issue at hand. He isn't the victim in this situation. Maybe we need another representative of the Apt. complex.(18:07:09)
tombenson:I've been the mgr of this apt for 9 years, and lots of tenants have come to me with complaints about different things. I always listen and try to help out but I have limits to what I can do. Most important, people need to talk to me like I was a person, not someone they can just dump on and call all kinds of names. Security guards and locks aren't promised in any of our advertising, and no one has ever been promised such a thing in person. we have a long waiting list for our apartments, and don't need to give anyone a line about what we can and can't do. we have been looking into better security but no way can we promise it. maybe she heard about this and just assumed it was going to happen for sure. the deadbolts are being looked into but so far we can't get them at a price that we can afford. Again, her experience was terrible, but really, she wasn't even really hurt and she should consider herself lucky. I got 2 broken ribs when I got mugged, and I didn't enjoy it one bit, but I gotta get on with my life. I'm sorry it happened to her but she can't hold us responsible for how she reacts.(18:07:08)
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jrifkin:Tom, can we begin with just one thing. You, too, mentioned being attacked and feeling unsafe. Is there anything that Rhonda stated that she feels that resonates with your experience?(18:04:55)
RhondaMcdonald:You really can never experience what I'm feeling unless it's happened. Maybe that's why Mr. Benson is being so insensitive. He just doesn't realize that I feel like a prisoner. I'm an absolute mess...(18:04:54)
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jrifkin:That sounds very overwhelming: not to feel safe at home and not to feel safe to leave. (18:03:13)
jrifkin:Rhonda, your statement is very clear. Please give a moment to get back to you.(18:02:04)
RhondaMcdonald:As I woman, I feel a price has been put on my life. I don't feel safe anymore, I can't interact, I don't trust men, I hate being in my home alone, and I'm afraid to leave!(18:01:24)
RhondaMcdonald:I feel at this point that there are multiple claims which need to be addressed. First and foremost, I wanted a safe apartment, but that didn't happen. Iwas led to belive that, and as such now I feel that there are things stemming from that which I need to be addressed. 1. I still don't live somewhere safe. The police and I agree that that is the very least I need. 2. I need to talk to a professional. I don't have the insurance coverage. It is the direct fault of the Apt. and Unit Mngr. that I need this counseling. I need payments for that. And I want them from Mr. Benson or the Lanlord. 3. I've endured a tremendous amount of emotional distress between the attack, the aftermath, my schoolwork, my job all while still trying approach Mr. Benson about it. I think I deserve compensation for that. 4. Lastly, I need to make a decision, if these things can't be met, I need to move, and the management has to pay my relocation expenses.(18:00:06)
jrifkin:Rhonda, can you tell us more from your perspective as a woman who thought she would have locks and then experienced an attack? (17:57:42)
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jrifkin:Tom sounds like you want a harassment-free environment and we will talk with you more. While we talk to Rhonda can you begin to formulate what exactly that would mean if tenants have concerns in the future and how they would approach you. We'll get back to you soon.(17:56:13)
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tombenson:so now what?(17:54:48)
jrifkin:Thank you Tom.(17:53:43)
tombenson:I just want to be able to do my job and be at the apts without constantly being harassed by her I don't even know what she really wants from me that's possible because I can't provide psych care(17:53:03)
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jrifkin:Tom, we are still not clear on what you need and want. (17:51:11)
jrifkin:Rhonda, we are going to hear a little more from Tom and then we want to hear more from you. In the meantime, can you begin to write to us (just don't send it yet) about what it is that you want from Tom at this point.(17:50:22)
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tombenson:so what is the issue?(17:49:14)
tombenson:safety is an issue for everyone in this neighborhood(17:48:51)
RhondaMcdonald:I don't mean to interrupt, but I stressed once before that this is not a cut and dry safety issue for me any longer. I think that is where Mr. Benson and I are having most of are misunderstandings.(17:48:19)
tombenson:I never told her that we had a 24 hour security guard, only that it's something we'd thought of for the future. and she saw the apt without deadbolt locks, so how could she now say that I said they were there. don't know the time frame, just if and when it becomes possible(17:47:09)
jrifkin:We need to reiterate that it is difficult for us to learn what is going on if you both cross-talk. Tom, it sounds like the reason that the locks have not gone in is because of money. But it also sounds like you too think safety is an issue. What is the timeframe and the expense involved.(17:46:11)
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tombenson:this keeps getting into an argument which I can do at home so how is this mediation any different?(17:44:06)
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tombenson:we're trying to make things safer for all our tenants, but it's really a money issue. the rents here are pretty low, and it's not cheap(17:43:07)
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RhondaMcdonald:First, it is a blatant falsehood that I was NEVER told that there was security in this building. His exact words to me were "the apartment management retains a 24-hour security guard and the apartments would soon be fitted with deadbolt locks." And the issue concerning the psychiatrist was something that was on advice of my private doctor. I don't need a "shrin" I need a little more security personally sice the apts. have failed to provide it physically(17:42:22)
jrifkin:Tom, soounds like you had been willing to discuss these matters. could you talk about what you'd like to communicate about this?(17:41:16)
tombenson:the guy who jumped her in the garage. this is a high crime area, and those things happen it's happened to me(17:40:53)
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jrifkin:Tom, can you tell us more about what you mean about Rhonda holding you responsible for others' actions. (17:39:53)
tombenson:but it's really not possible to discuss this, she just starts screaming at me whenever I try(17:39:35)
tombenson:half this neighborhood needs a shrink(17:37:20)
tombenson:well, she's trying to hold us responsible for other people's actions. Noone's happy about what happened, but she wants us to pay for a shrink. That's ridiculous(17:36:54)
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jrifkin:Tom, it sounds like you felt that you were clear about what the apt had to offer. Can you tell us what your concerns are now?(17:35:38)
tombenson:should I continue or not?(17:34:42)
jrifkin:Tom, we do want to hear from you now. Unfortunately, there is a little lag time between sending messages. But it would help if bot of you could help us by only sending us messages when we are engaging with you.(17:34:33)
tombenson:what's happening out there?(17:34:07)
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tombenson:I thought it was my turn to talk(17:32:33)
tombenson:I never told her that we had 24 hour security and deadbolts, and she could have seen that for herself(17:32:06)
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RhondaMcdonald:A few weeks ago, on my way from my car to the apartment, I was grabbed by a man and threatened to "keep quiet" . I barely was able to escape and make it into my apartment. I screamed and screamed until the neighbors called the police.(17:31:49)
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tombenson:She came to look at the apt and got to see what we offered. She knew it was a high crime area, and we can't be responsible for what goes on outside(17:31:30)
jrifkin:Tom, again thanks for your patience. We would like to hear about your concerns.(17:31:25)
jrifkin:Rhonda, sounds like you raised your safety concerns with Tom. And we will want to hear about that conversation in its specifics. But first we want to hear from Tom.(17:30:50)
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RhondaMcdonald:I was ASSURED that this building had 24-hour security guards and deadbolt locks on all the doors. Only after that assurance did I move in. I had made repeated attempts to follow up on the locks and security guards. At all times my inquiries were dismissed(17:29:50)
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RhondaMcdonald:Sure. I'm a third year law student. I work all day and take night classes. I was looking for a place to live. I looked at "Easy Living" and spoke with Mr. Benson. Safety was my m,ain concer at the time because this building is located in a high-crime and high-risk area.(17:28:03)
jrifkin:Rhonda, can you start to tell us what has happened over the last 3 months regarding the apt?(17:25:52)
jrifkin:Tom, you have been waiting patiently and we have questions for you to ask in one minute. Thanks.(17:25:15)
tombenson:ok with me (17:25:15)
jrifkin:We promise to talk with each of you extensively and so you will have a chance to let us know what your perspectives are thoroughly.(17:24:11)
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jrifkin:At this point we want to ask both of you if you would please just observe and read the comments of the other person. However, that when we are communicating with one, that you don't engage. (17:23:31)
RhondaMcdonald:But this to me is more than just an issue of safety at this point!(17:23:13)
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tombenson:I thought we were supposed to talk to the mediator(17:22:42)
RhondaMcdonald:Yes, that's correct(17:22:17)
RhondaMcdonald:What attempts have you made to talk to me? That's a very sexist statement to claim that I get "hysterical"(17:21:59)
jrifkin:Rhonda, sounds like you are mostly concerned with issues of safety and how Tom has communicated with you when your concerns have not been addressed. Is this right?(17:21:37)
RhondaMcdonald:About three months now.(17:20:52)
tombenson:every time I try to talk to her about what happened she gets hysterical and tries to blame me for all her problems(17:20:51)
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jrifkin:Rhonda, how long have you been living in this apt?(17:20:10)
RhondaMcdonald:I'm in a severe predicament. I can't continue with my life as I know it. I now need psychiactric counseling to deal with an event that I was assured would never occur!(17:19:57)
jrifkin:It would be helpful to us if each of you addressed your comments directly to us, even when we are not using the private box for private messages. (17:19:38)
RhondaMcdonald:I have attempted myself to resolve this issue with Mr. Benson, but have been met with sarcasm, insensitivity, and absolutely no progress.(17:18:39)
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RhondaMcdonald:I'm here because I feel that my life has been seriously disrupted ever since I moved into the Easy Living Apartment complex. I was assured it was a safe environment. Since, I have been attacked, my work both professionally and in school has suffered as well as my emotional well being. (17:16:18)
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jrifkin:It sounds like it would help if we give some more clarity about our roles as mediators. We are not advocates for either side. Instead, it is our commitment to concentrate on making it as easy as possible for you to express your concerns and explore options for resolution. We don't know anything about what has gone on and what you would like to have happen. Could you fill us in?(17:15:04)
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tombenson:I thought she was supposed to start by saying why we are here(17:13:36)
RhondaMcdonald:Thank you.(17:13:05)
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tombenson:As I said I represent him so I am empowered to negotiate for him and try to settle this(17:12:31)
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RhondaMcdonald:Are you then acting on his behalf then with what we are about to continue with. Do you have the authority to negotiate on his behalf. If not I'm going back to my "Easy" Living!(17:11:22)
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jrifkin:Thank you. Mediation is a voluntary process through which people can tell their stories and talk about the issues with which they are concerned. We don't take sides or make decisions for you. Our role is to help you tell your story and explore ways to work out this situation. We usually begin with the person who contacted the mediation program first and in this case it was Rhonda. So, Rhonda, why don't you begin by telling us what brings you to this mediation.(17:09:28)
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tombenson:I am the unit mgr, not the landlord, but I do represent the landlord(17:08:52)